WiX Online Meeting #173

good morning good afternoon good evening this is the Wix online meeting 173 getting our way halfway through July which I guess is most of the way through the year know at least halfway around the Year I always thought July was the middle but because my mom’s birthday’s in July and I was like oh it’s halfway to Christmas but that’s not actually true the seventh month and you know what I’m like forty years old I’m still game is wrong anyway this
means being recorded for those of you that aren’t with us right here right now on our brand-new home twitch we’re trying this live streaming thing out out of Skype for business and into twitch I’ll talk about a little bit and then we’ll do triage like we always do we’ll talk about votive v1 being released on then we’ll do our usual questions or comments if anybody has them that kind of good stuff I’m a little excited about this meeting because
I’ve been having a lot of fun with twitch despite lots of little glitches if you are watching this if you’ve joined us since the beginning like Jacob who’s always here Thank You Jacob you notice that we started about 20 minutes late due to lots of different technical problems but we think it’s all working now although we won’t know until the recording is up on YouTube for sure if you see anything or hear anything it’s really kind of weird let us
know I think we know we have a problem with Bob and Shaun’s mics they’re not quite sounding quite right we’ll play with that later there’s but honestly I’ve had a decent amount of fun given the fact that this was kind of forced upon us with the deprecation of Skype for business and the forcing of use of teams the moving to this open broadcasting software and what you can do with twitch and things like that it seems seems like there’s a lot of
potential and I’m actually pretty excited to explore a little bit of that and where we can go for that so if you want to watch us live twitch.tv and fire giant CO and if you want to watch it later we upload the recording of this meeting to the youtubes on Wix toolset user so you can always go and find those if you’re not able to make this time slot now you may have noticed also I mentioned it here that I sent out a survey to the Wix users mailing
list and I think Wix does as well asking people about the meeting did they know it’s there do they ever attend can they attend and if there’s a better time slot we’re looking another time slot because Shawn is going to be down under for a while and so we’re trying to figure out a good time that he can still join with Bob and I being on the northern hemisphere um and I’m basically the opposite side almost outside of the world so we’re still
working at the time I’ve got a lot of good feedback in that survey a lot of different feedback but the Europeans were pretty clear that most of the time slots that are going to work for Australia will not work for them which of course does not surprise me does not surprise us but we’ll work it out I think what we may find we do is we pick two time slots and we switch them per every other week or something like that so we could kind of hit
different people every other time but of course the means are recorded and put up to YouTube if you can’t make this time slot but times may change and we’re going to continue to work our way into how the best way to work inside twitch but all in all given the frustration that I was having that we’re because we’re being forced out of something that was just working Skype for business I’m actually pretty happy and excited about where we are now all
right so that’s we’re gonna talk about Twitter today I’m sure it’ll come up again in the future as we work out the technology and glitches and I hope this meeting goes off really well now you actually see all of this in the end because we won’t know until we get there but I think now let’s get out as a meta conversation about how these meetings happen let’s actually go do our work we skipped last week because it was July 4th so we have a few more
issues to triage we’ll decide if we want to do them all today since we got a late start I’ll let you guys kind of sort that out as we work our way through but Bob are you ready to go to the to the web let’s go all right here we are several issues I figured out you could sort these things in the other order so I actually put the oldest on top now instead of the oldest on the bottom and we’ll go so I can start at the top instead of scrolling for
the bottom up um where’s now they’re just through my bookkeeping but all right sorry I should have warned you um this was marked the labels are cleared on this because someone has said that they’re actually interested in like trying to address this in three of course we take the fixin floor no problem and the fix should go there first would we bring this back to three well the comment from five years ago still stands as long as its opt-in you
know we can’t bring added a little right yes so it would have Ricki hopping switch yeah right and this is this is just the the generated IDs like directory and file and if you use auto ID you don’t have this problem well well except you do it’s not just goods right it’s it’s the generated IDs for directories and files yeah you know now that you’re mentioning all this let’s put it in four and honestly we if we go to four we don’t need to switch
right just fix it make it fips-compliant carrying on right right right I think that’s the answer so I think that means that’s what we have to take back to where steps I’d be okay we’re taking it because I don’t think it’s a it’s it’s not a big change just it has to be backward compatible alright I’m Ivan kind take it to four but we knew that um Sean you have any opinion not really yeah I know it’s gonna be the answer not very good for having a
typewriter one doesn’t have an opinion I don’t care strongly so if you want to take that message back while I’m good with that okay sure cool I need to solve these I’ve not had time to get into these bundle doesn’t detect earlier bundle up great different good style yeah so near ran this down and you found out that you can sneak the bad going through a look variable or a bind variable so we should take this in we should definitely fix us in for I
I had a link to a blog post over 11 years ago that yeah so the same thing if you bypass the compiler you miss out on all the compilers error checking yeah so I mean before we’re doing more and more in the back end the binder and things like that so I think we probably should bring this along in for and make sure this is solved correctly on for beyond just the bundle well certainly the bundle and kind of keep it in mind for most things silence
bothersome hi I’m I don’t I prefer you know like we’re gonna do a a real fix well the fix is to do all of the normalization any normalization that the compiler does the would do that could be affected by variables to be done later like right as late as possible so like good normalization has to be done yeah in the binder in the backend mm-hmm so yes I think that’s the the solution to all this so let’s put it before you can give it to me because I
am doing these kinds of things and I don’t make sure that bundles get this and I will look at all the other kind of processing we’re doing on certainly for normalization of goods everywhere and we’ll tackle this there don’t know that I can get all locals in one pass though cuz there’s so many different places all right the s 2019 fails in an offline environment and I think we’ve come down to they just don’t have the certificates right yeah kind
of so far I mean there’s the newest bug has something a little different possibly because everything is working fine obviously if you’re connected and then you just verified this that if you disconnect to the machine and you didn’t everything we’re fine so it’s just a matter of if you’re a completely disconnected if your certificates are out of date the visual studio extension installer will not install a sign package well the noticed but was
saying something about replication like that seems to be trying to get the latest revocation or revocation list sorry it’s both for offline yeah you can’t you can’t check the revocation list but that newest book also says that he has the the full chain is present so I don’t know what that means as as far as you know it will it still fail if if I don’t know if it’s a revocation list is stale that forces an online check that fails and then v6
installer fails how not sure what’s involved you know what I think they should send this to that there’s a studio team yeah I mean I guess design choice yeah I mean and then it may come back though it’s like well you guys need to do X Y or Z but I don’t like I think the only term is at this point is don’t sign the packages which is where Byrne ended up doing for all of its constituent packages it doesn’t matter well validate signatures because or
it doesn’t block the install yeah Jacob this is hella fall down to that yeah yeah yeah we had an ability to get the same security that we needed without having this do certificate validation signed yeah let’s let’s send this to the visual studio they’ll send us out the visual studio for now and then we’ll see where it comes back because I don’t know what else I mean there’s nothing else we can do except not sign and okay I guess I mean not really
excited about doing that well if someone refuses requested that yeah I mean because v6 installer can’t handle it people are asking for it no their Hyundais problem so this is this is really a visual studio problem unless they say that we should not sign things yeah Visual Studio says oh yeah yeah don’t sign because there’s all these problems then then well that’s their answer then they should stop it from checking certificates I agree with you
there too but it has don’t find is kind of an unlikely response it does seem unlikely that’s why I’m I don’t think this is going to be us to me okay I agree there’s nothing more we can do and even trying to diagnose the problem is like this is the problem this is the problem only with MSI we can actually do things with v6 so it’s like yeah we don’t get to do anything like right if it doesn’t work Visual Studio has a bug almost always at this
point there’s Ben there’s been very few bugs in our input to the Installer so all right so let’s send that off to the visual studio and we may get working that yeah I don’t sign but whatever um full width form double quotes cannot be displayed correctly on the boost dropper screens yeah I’ve got no response and with useful information so yeah I should we even wait any more no come on yeah I’m with you error wall master 5670 5670 5670 all right
it’s one of those closed can’t resolve cable 11:55 six seven zero yes what we’re looking for oh the someone has asked can we have this reopened male is not a response one answered it old correct way oh yeah this is where the service installed didn’t end up matching or our version of service install didn’t end up matching with the winds installers can take service config sorry didn’t match exactly what theirs did in the end and nobody’s gone back
to our service config to add the things that there’s added after the fact or not after them yeah after ours after ours yeah yeah yeah it’s a feature so we should add it’d be great if someone out of this feature well specifically the new warning is I see they want to trim the warning down so if you’re using the failure actions of that don’t hmm and that requires making a judgment call about what the documentation that says it doesn’t work is
actually saying it’s like what parts of this a new MSI functionality that is broken is actually broken and not going to get fixed at what new functionality works reliably says the people that won’t fix it yeah um I took a point I think the answer to this is we should just add so much it aside to late auto start sure sure and if someone wants to add the documentation until that happens I would take that change too that notes that the other thing
doesn’t support auto starts it’s kind of stuck until someone adds auto start or use the you know whatever the windows installer says doesn’t work you know use that in the meantime suppress the warning so I agree we’ve kind of worked our way through a bad spot until we do this so but yeah it should be improved so what do we do with this issue I’m fine just making it the add delete it out of start yeah I think that’s the response to him a site yeah
the best option here would be for someone to go in and add that the late auto start nobody has signed up to do that work yet he’s not wrong or she yeah this person is not wrong agree yeah all right cool on tap all right now where was I error oh so this is the other one you guys are talking about no oh there’s newer number one I’m sorry yet another one oh no oh my goodness she confused me by the whole doing it oh no this one is no you’re right
this one is error already exists the CI targets already exist you need to investigate why that file exists and that was 30 days ago so I think we can close this as date probably load this file by hand and got themselves in this problem right that’s my bet because there’s probably was a point in time when we were not copying that file you needed up a hand and then they forgot that they copied but yeah the visual studio there is a very poor
installer and it won’t figure out how to reference count files and it won’t overwrite them it just blocks everything or is always been sports for people to yeah manually create voted for the next version of Visual Studio that’s true project property visual system does not held dark team well that is true it does not I have noticed the same thing I expect the product there just to behave like any other Mac should be readable yeah go fix it that’s
why yeah put it in for X and we can fix it then one oh my goodness another one of these what do I do with the screen reader things keyboard navigations keyboard navigation status probably links within the software’s license term section or not uh silvana keyboard that’s gonna be tricky yeah well that one that one probably is not us or there’s probably nothing we could do about it close is not accessible via a keyboard on set a cost us a window
really it can’t even tab to it sorry sorry I liked it you want to go go through these one at a time I guess I I thought is like ah but I agree but I think there are some that we can exactly like this rich text we can probably just get rid of so now this one I believe that this is a real thing I don’t think we handle focus correctly in TV at all well this esteem you don’t yes it of course is not made very clear about the bug report but this is a
bundle using work standard be a okay um yeah all right cool we should put this in Forks should get fixed although there are on 3/7 that’s kind of old yeah and and I might be tempted to just say you know what’s the chances that we fix this and anything it’s not that no very good no not that said there there is at least one change I know of and I don’t recall we version 10 and it might not come out as what works for but there was a fix there in
activation but I don’t think any of these bugs are affected by that yeah all right so so we feel there’s a good chance that this probably still exists and in the code I think so all right then we put it in for and yeah someone should fix that maybe great narrator’s so this is this is the same person okay grace this is always Sam VA which is important because we actually can fix these things which is different than Windows installer UI okay so you
think that this is probably an issue as well then well now here I have no idea I have because I have no idea about about a narrator and of course it requires Windows 10 and I don’t know yes navigate to all the controls of the sort of successful it’s not a problem to way to verify if narrator read the information about so successful or not I don’t know what that means narrator should provide information narrator is not providing any inference I
don’t I have no idea what those needs providing information is not very useful so I don’t know what this book report is actually saying I don’t know what information narrator was supposed to provide about it well I I could see that when you get to the final when you get to the setup successful page there’s nothing that tells you that the page is successful right there’s no narrator will not read to you that you’re on the successful setup page
instead of successful page because no control that says success sure there is narrator’s a windows thing Jacob there is that so it all right well I mean that’s it’s a string and again this time yeah this is a matter of interesting they are saying the narrator is not reading the controls because it says navigate to all the controls the Navigator will read the text so I’m yeah normally you can’t give focus to a label so it won’t read like if you
associate the label with something then it’ll read it but I don’t think you can do that in Windows actually I mean I know you can’t provide focus but I thought narrator was different maybe that’s it maybe it’s they’re expecting I don’t know sorry we’re speculating based on you know a bug report that probably makes sense to someone who’s an expert in fine you have them respond and say how how would one correctly fix this someone that no
understands accessibility how would you go about correctly fixing this and let’s give this you know put that in here and put it in four and hopefully they’ll respond and tell us how to do this or someone’s got to do a lot of research and narrator and learn the accessibility stuff and you know make the middle handled that which will be a task at some point in time that we probably should do okay so you want to take this even if we don’t okay cuz
you know the person hasn’t responded after three weeks yeah they’re not coming back are they it’s like driving the same thing yeah same same thing happened the last time we got a drive-by don’t being a accessibility bugs yeah they don’t really care well there their job was complete when they go over the books yes we still should put the ask in there and then we’ll put it in for X and B light yeah I mean it would be great if someone that
understands accessibility would improve the accessibility for any things that we’re messing up it should be done yeah and that’s just where we’re at on these I think it’s like yeah look there are the set of issues these set of accessibility issues that it should be tackled what does it take I don’t know someone with knowledge and/or time to go learn it I guess it’s kind of what we’re looking at which is our same as the last issue we were just
talking about close but not accessible same thing well no because the sorry I do bucket these differently the the keyboard accessibility anyone can look at and and the behavior is simple you know either a control has focus or it doesn’t and at least that bug report was more explicit about the problem the narrator stuff is harder because if you’re not an accessibility expert specifically in terms of visual accessibility then it’s like you know so
most of the rest of these that talk about the about a narrator are making assumptions that you know what is supposed to happen yeah so I’m saying we don’t have to go learn it or someone’s going to teach us the right way to do it either way forgot to learn okay I understand there’s that to fix this issue that we agree should be fixed requires a body of knowledge that none of us have today yes and I guess it also follows from that that we don’t
have enough information to say whether it should be fixed so yeah true if we had the body of knowledge in this we would be able to say whether it should be fixed or not that’s well right right okay define for product logos this is another thing in the page that’s something it’s not set yeah or this narrative focus should not land on logo yeah again it’s like okay I don’t know why you can navigate to the logo narrator damn oh sure yeah but maybe
there’s some way of getting narrator skip it well there must be because it’s like we’re not providing information about some it’s like hey we’re finding information about a logo that we don’t but we’re not providing information about the title of the you know the page say whether you’re successful or not right problem this says you cannot access links inside the EULA which could be possible yeah but I don’t know that we can do anything about this
I don’t know but we own the rich edit boxes being drawn at least so well know we owned the fact that were using a Regina box with Regina box right so keep this yeah I mean we it turned into at least try look at it big you know Jacob brought at the point that maybe you have to implement I accessible to you know get into some of these things there’s I sure yeah I’m sorry I can’t I’m just sorry the retailer controls it seems it’s really unlikely
that there’s anything we can do but okay you’re right we have to investigate yeah well Donald a see when users looks okay browse for folder pop up the keep our focus is not visible in the install location editable field all right actual result it’s ok abrupt the keyboard focus is not visible keep our focus is only visible over the install location and we’ll field when the user presses one extra tab I don’t know that that’s okay like they wanted
to automatically be inside the install location I don’t know that we control this UI though when user presses escape the keyboard focus does not land on the Browse button which is your origin yes so this is some very fine probably expected behavior for as you’re navigating by a keyboard only yeah okay I mean yeah that’s this seems more nice to have than the other ones in the install location name does not define for software license document yeah
Jacob I agree they they want careful focus usage based on which you know which I think make sense because right yeah if I’m using the keyboard I’d like to be more efficient right yeah okay name is not correctly if I verify what name name name is not quickly defined for software license term document section Oh name is correctly named she corrected by Microsoft software license term document section yeah okay so this is more narrator go they want
it back on the Edit control on okay so the screener reads back their selection for confirmation Oh interesting okay I see that Jacob that’s yeah this is yeah I mean sure I could learn a lot about accessibility whoever fixes this either knows a lot about accessibility or will learn a lot about it doing this I mean it makes a lot of sense narrator focus order and scan mode is not logical to move from title after cancel button okay all these are yet
like someone wants to undertake keyboard navigation screen reader type thing there’s a set of awesome opportunity for you in Wix with all these things um Visual Studio code extension that’s awfully large we did not have a central works in this case small teams have only one user voice command line which is not as comfortable as a GUI tool helped us but not so comfortable as it could be I’d like to get an extension for it there’s a studio code as
they created this is your probe okay that’s nice do we keep this I mean there’s nothing in this other than I mean this is a gigantic thing with no feature description at all hello oh we lost Bob Shawn are you still there I’m still here oh we lost Bob hmm maybe yeah I can’t see Bob that’s weird that’s wondering why it got so quiet isn’t getting any pushback on these things anymore all right I do believe we lost Bob but I don’t think it’s because
of twitch all right I think that means that we’re gonna stop here Shawn at this Visual Studio extension and we’ll pick up there in two weeks sound good to you yeah that’s good all right because we don’t have our tie breaker anymore and have to go from there the winner of Bob’s machine restarted or if you lost network connectivity or what so but that means he’s going to miss the party as we move on from triage because voted B 1 has been released
which has this is just such a massive undertaking for something that should none of these problems should earring problems I’ve spent every day for the last probably three weeks maybe not every day at least every other day for the last three weeks working with the visual studio marketplace team to address all of the little policy changes they made that totally hosed the ability to upload the Wix tool the votive extensions to the visual studio
marketplace now a lot of the problems that we had there were because Louis tools that has been around for a long time and got migrated from the gallery under a different name and then just kind of moved its way through and they’ve been slowly locking down that certain parts of your extension manifest much must match what is in the marketplace and so on and because of the migration of the Wix toolset there was this disconnect between those so what
we had on our manifest did not match what they had on the marketplace and there is no way you fix the marketplace to the correct values which were in our manifest and then there were lots of other problems and so essentially be I’d send one email per day and then a day or day and a half two days later they get response saying okay now you need to do this I try that it wouldn’t work spend some time on it so it was just a tremendous undertaking to
finally get the vs market Visual Studio extension aka vota published the visitor to marketplace fortunately by the end they were they had come to realize how much trouble that I had had and they were becoming much responsive which certainly helped in the last week so the net net is that we now have votive v1 published up there for all from Visual Studio 2010 all the way through Visual Studio 2019 support everything is all baselined all the latest
votive code is up there and going so yeh if I wasn’t so tired of working on votive which I don’t like working on anyway because I don’t like I don’t work on board it’s not my thing not what I do just getting the silly thing published was a massive undertaking yay it’s done I hope people are enjoying it I know we’re having problems of signing and hopefully the visual studio guys will fix this whenever there’s the issue of signing and maybe we’ll
have to release another votive to undo signing I guess might be the next thing we have to do which just seems terribly wrong but anyway all that yeh votive v1 hope people are enjoying it working our way through it and yay I’m done so done with this it took so much effort to get this working so that note there anything else people want to talk about questions comments to have things going on hopefully this nutrition thing is going to work out well
hopefully our recording up to YouTube is clean and good and everything just is now stable we’re right at 10:30 which is usually our max endpoint Grandda we started about 20 minutes late so this meeting is not an hour long I guess it’s what don’t do math on stream I’ve always heard but what’s that 40 minutes then 40 minute meeting that’s pretty good especially since we skipped last one you have anything going on Sean no we might have gone back oh
do we have a back ah all right it’s it’s a storming year so I had a power outage that code like that network connectivity understood one all goes well for the rest of the day you just missed my my happy tirade about being done with votive visit and I heard it before yes yeah as it’s been having Aladdin you know month and everything else uh-huh 17 have it as well so oh gosh that’s just so much so all right we don’t want to do all it anymore I want
to look forward to happy stuff working I hope that means that twitch is working right now we’ll know soon that’s all I have I guess we’ll be back in two weeks so that’ll put us on the first of August sound good hopefully Shawn will find a way to connect from Australia then we will see if this if you can connect at this time slot or not or whatever we work out but we’ll discuss that around on what time slot we want to pick given this Shawn
swimming Down Under and we have two weeks for that so two weeks next meeting we’re gonna be here again twitch if you want to watch it live otherwise if you guys are watching us on YouTube nothing changed for you except well except a well you know a little different look the chat is integrated a little bit differently these like that so until then two weeks from now you guys take it easy I’ll talk to you later might buy thing